Children can now be euthanized in the Netherlands.

Seeing as how the thread about The lawsuit to include religious beliefs of the Founding Fathers has turned toward the issue of abortion, I felt this news might be of interest.

AMSTERDAM, Netherlands (AP) – A hospital in the Netherlands – the first nation to permit euthanasia – recently proposed guidelines for mercy killings of terminally ill newborns, and then made a startling revelation: It has already begun carrying out such procedures, which include administering a lethal dose of sedatives.

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Personally I believe that everyone should be privy to euthanasia and seeing as an infant has only his parents to rely upon for such judgments, this would be a very humane way to eliminate the pain and agony that goes along with these types of births.  As long as the parents and doctors are working together I see no reason why The Groningen Protocol could not be implemented on a global scale.

As you can imagine, this has several anti-choiceabortion activists up in arms.  The issue has also attracted broader interest from groups claiming that this is a covert attempt to develop a supreme race or a slippery slope toward it at best.  Needless to say, these claims are extremely exaggerated as the legality of terminating and infants life is still the responsibility of the doctor and can only be carried out in terminal or severely debilitating cases.

While reading up on this issue I also discovered an article on why Abortion is biblical.  The author makes some very interesting points that those who have not fully read the bible will find interesting.

Oddly enough, the Vatican is none too pleased.

68 thoughts on “Children can now be euthanized in the Netherlands.

  1. Our parents have made mistakes in their lives and I bet they are sorry for it(they might not show it but deep inside they are in great pain) and we also have to be better than they are. So what if our mothers might treat us like matter(yes it hurts and we feel bad about it), but should we then go in her footsteps and then treat our children like matter. I wouldn’t and could not.

    I agree with the notion, except that treating them like matter (which is what we are, make no mistake) is not the issue. The issue in that instance is that the parents were either unprepared or irresponsible.

    I’m not very interested if some stupid fly-*ss or someone irresponsible gets pregnant. It’s their fault it happend and should face the consequences and troubles that lie ahead.

    Yeah maturity – thats what todays civilization is forgeting. Eveyone wants to work and play and they forget about what is a real family not mentioning religious values.

    It’s not the kid’s fault if the parents aren’t prepared, but the kid will be the one to suffer the consequences of it the rest of their lives. The kids depend on the parents for their development. It’s a lot harder to dodge developmental problems caused to you than it is to dodge problems that you create. While I’m at it, I wouldn’t be quick to call people names, even prostitutes, ‘cause the judgement won’t do any good. Besides, forcing a woman to carry a child and forcing the child to live to uphold a moral standard says that “what I believe is more important than your life”. If you really believe in God, that’s not your judgement call, that’s Gods, and judgement comes to them at the Rapture. You can leave the woman alone on that one. Forcing a woman to carry a child to term can kill her (in fact she is many many times more likely to be killed doing that than having an abortion, although in this case it doesn’t apply since that’s not what’s going on). It may seem immature, but it can save human life, too.

    If abortion wasn’t an option for your mom then whats the problem. You were born.

    I’ll bet you’ve never dealt with psychologists before. Trust me on this, it takes a lot of time and effort to pick up the pieces and move on, and it’s never fully successful – there will always be long-term effects of poor parenting.

  2. People I know some situations in life are hard, but we have to be better than the average standard, show that we can do more.

    This written by someone who obviously has never had anything REALLY bad happen to him.

    I’m not very interested if some stupid fly-*ss or someone irresponsible gets pregnant. It’s their fault it happend and should face the consequences and troubles that lie ahead.

    Many things are up to God,[…]You were born. God could have desided if you were to be born dead or alive(just an example)

    That’s right.  All the blame goes to the people and all the credit goes to God.  Typical horseshit from a typically clueless wingnut.

    Dude, something bad is going to happen to you soon, and it will be a sign from God that He doesn’t like you.  Trust me on this.  You’ll have it coming to you because of your lack of sympathy and charity.  Jesus is pissed off at you bigtime.

  3. I love it when old, old threads come back to life.  I just didn’t expect it to be this one.

    Jahool – Throughout history science has produced new means to improve human survival and way of life.  Some would say that science is maturing as new discoveries are made.  It’s just a matter of how we humans chose to employ these new discoveries that shows how we’ve matured as a race.

    To me, watching someone or something suffer with a debilitating illness or injury is both childish and cowardly.  It takes commonsense and courage to do the right thing.  Based on your posts I would say you fall into the former category.

    Please tell we what is right about forcing a life, any life, into a world where they cannot survive and/or flourish?  What is mature about taking an overpopulated planet from 6 bil inhabitants to 8 bil? What is courageous about standing by while an infant cries out for weeks before drowning in its own blood?

    Why is it that people such as yourself will give more humane treatment to a wounded bird, or a deer that’s been hit by a truck, than you will to your sickly newborn niece or suffering grandmother?

    What’s worse, where do you get off trying to force your deluded visions of morality upon everyone on the planet?  No one is forcing these parents or doctors to euthanize these people.  It’s a choice, and a choice you’re obviously not old enough to comprehend.

  4. Flip! I might be young but I can’t accept things like taking life away from a human (even if it is his decision). Maybe in a hundred years time euthanasia will be for not only the sick but the “healthy”. They’ll come to their doctor and say “I’m sick and tired of everything, this is not my place, and so on”. It’s aiming to this kind of situation. Sparta also killed its “weak” and that didn’t get them far.

    And that attitude my friend is what causes unhappy families. A flippant dismissal such as yours enables and encourages child abuse and sibling alienation. I don’t know how else to tell you that kids get abused and grow up feeling like the unwanted birth was his or her fault.

    I was meaning that the stupid pregnant fly-ass should face the consequences and raise the child born and not kill it. Besides tell me where do you see truly happy families?? Where everyone is always happy, sincere and other perfect and positive qualities?? I guess you’ll only find that in books, films and tales… This is caused by everyone’s slight or intensive egoism (mainly this is the reason in many cases)

    “People I know some situations in life are hard, but we have to be better than the average standard, show that we can do more.”
    This written by someone who obviously has never had anything REALLY bad happen to him.

    “I’m not very interested if some stupid fly-*ss or someone irresponsible gets pregnant. It’s their fault it happened and should face the consequences and troubles that lie ahead.”

    “Many things are up to God,[…]You were born. God could have decided if you were to be born dead or alive(just an example)”
    That’s right.  All the blame goes to the people and all the credit goes to God.  Typical horseshit from a typically clueless wingnut.

    Dude, something bad is going to happen to you soon, and it will be a sign from God that He doesn’t like you.  Trust me on this.  You’ll have it coming to you because of your lack of sympathy and charity.  Jesus is pissed off at you bigtime.

    Broh I’m not a bloody devotee. Besides this only shows how shallow your concept on religion is. By the way how do you know that I show a lack of sympathy and charity?? And if that was somekind of example then it was doof.

    What is courageous about standing by while an infant cries out for weeks before drowning in its own blood?

    If an infant is born and is well alive and kicking then what the heck does “drowning in it’s own blood” have to do with it.  Sorry if I didn’t get it right. When you said about our population growing from 6 to 8 bil, i guess you were talking about “the Worlds population” and not “Europe’s (where abortion is practiced and also the society is becoming old)” population.

    Why is it that people such as yourself will give more humane treatment to a wounded bird, or a deer that’s been hit by a truck, than you will to your sickly newborn niece or suffering grandmother?

    ehhhhhmmm think this through again. If agree to this again then i my opinion you’ve got things a tichy wrong.

     

    What’s worse, where do you get off trying to force your deluded visions of morality upon everyone on the planet?  No one is forcing these parents or doctors to euthanize these people.  It’s a choice, and a choice you’re obviously not old enough to comprehend.

    Maybe…? You know, I now live in a country that disapproves of euthanasia and I solemnly reinforce this attitude. ohh and before accusing me of mass tutoring (the World).Ask yourself to who the hell can I force my visions. This is a part of MY ideology. I think that we wouldn’t have these queries right now if we talked face to face. A conversation is always better than a post (that doesn’t exhibit the whole perspective of ones idea)

  5. Welcome back, deadscot honey.  Ah bin missin’ yew!  *smooch*

    My darling GM, I couldn’t stay apart from you for long.

    Okay Jahwool, it seems that you’re a little confused by the whole Groningen Protocol so I suggest that you might want to read up on it so you can form a lucid opinion.

    ehhhhhmmm think this through again. If agree to this again then i my opinion you’ve got things a tichy wrong.

    Thought it through a million times and I still come up with life is life.  I was drawing a corollary between putting down an injured horse while watching a human being suffer until death when both lives may be suffering an equivalant infliction..

    When you said about our population growing from 6 to 8 bil, i guess you were talking about “the Worlds population

  6. Besides this only shows how shallow your concept on religion is. By the way how do you know that I show a lack of sympathy and charity??

    Dude, saying someone should be forced to suffer through childbirth (and potentially get killed in the process) and the trials of raising a child regardless of how it got to that point (then forcing the child to suffer the effects of a neglectful rearing) is totally unsympathetic.

  7. Arc, here’s the nutshell version.

    Virtually all anti-abortion people assert the moral authority to impose a life-altering decision on a mother-to-be, but none of them are willing to shoulder a concomitant responsibility.

    Instead of pontificating why women shouldn’t have abortions, they should start asking why women want abortions in the first place and work their way backwards from there.

    And not to forget this quip: If men could get pregnant, abortion would be a god-given right.

  8. Wow, Jahool. You got so wrapped up in your own self-righteousness you forgot what the argument was about. Way to go.

  9. Euthanasia was the origional topic, and this goes to my problem with it – others deciding who gets euthanised. Surely it’s a patients choice, but if the patient is hours or days old, it is the parents choice. This makes the choice similar one to abortion, hence the confusion I guess, but there is a major exception – it is given that the child has a life threatening condition.

    What I don’t like, like capital punishment it leaves no room for error. Diagnoses have been wrong before, and will be wrong again, and innocent people will die, just like innocent people will be executed under any capital punishment scheme.

    While letting nature take its course would be barbaric, so is killing babies. The human organism is an amazing creation, and we are all exceptional individuals, what is terminal for one could be mild for the next. I am against this for these reasons.

  10. Just one remark:

    it is given that the child has a life threatening condition.

    I haven’t followed the story since it broke, but the original Groningen Protocol does not refer to simply life-threatening conditions, but exclusively to terminal and agonizingly painful ones. Medical opinion has been known to be wrong, but the protocol requires a consensus opinion among consulting physicians and the only choice parents face is to come to terms with which one is harder for them to live with – knock out their newborns with painkillers and wait for the inevitable or spare them and let them go with mercy.

    In case this hasn’t been mentioned upthread, this is one of those situations where dormroom philosophers can opine until they’re blue in the face, but it must be the parent’s call and theirs only, free from any outside pressure.

  11. but it must be the parent’s call and theirs only, free from any outside pressure.

    Agreed.  They have enough inside pressure to deal with anyway, no matter how they choose.

  12. Castration is the commandment of Jesus.  I won’t explain this.  They could euthanize the homeless too but I think this is contradicted by general sterilization.  The great revelation is where the ovaries are.  This seems to have perplexed Jesus.

    NWO

  13. It must be noted that there is no shortage of babies in the world, healthy or unhealthy.  Overpopulation is destroying the earth making it worse for those of us already inhabiting it.
      Any humane reduction of the population such as standard abortion procedures or pain-free deaths of those allready born is a positive thing.
    In this day and age, giving birth is one of the most selfish and unforvigable things a woman can do.  Those who choose to get pregnant generally have a poor understanding of the world or do not care what impact they have.  Those conscientious individuals who would make the best parents would know better than to procreate and would choose adoption if desiring children.
      Those giving birth are no better than any other creature who gives in to their animal impulses and ignores and notions of morality or ethics.

  14. It must be noted that there is no shortage of babies in the world, healthy or unhealthy.  Overpopulation is destroying the earth making it worse for those of us already inhabiting it.
      Any humane reduction of the population such as standard abortion procedures or pain-free deaths of those allready born is a positive thing.
    In this day and age, giving birth is one of the most selfish and unforvigable things a woman can do.  Those who choose to get pregnant generally have a poor understanding of the world or do not care what impact they have.  Those conscientious individuals who would make the best parents would know better than to procreate and would choose adoption if desiring children.
      Those giving birth are no better than any other creature who gives in to their animal impulses and ignores and notions of morality or ethics.

    Good point. I took some of what I was arguing from The Secular Case Against Gay Marriage by Adam Kolasinksi

    I went looking for such reasons because it was proclaimed in a discussion group, in the manner of a thought killing command by a moderator (not this place) that THERE IS NOT ONE SINGLE SECULAR REASON TO DENY GAY MARRIAGE, except bigotry.  I took that as a challenge, because I love to argue, but in the friendly stimulating way not the ugly sort of fuck you way.

  15. Above post-Wrong thread! Sorry people. I read that in another context. Still trying to figure this format out.
    Can it be moved or deleted?

  16. I can move it or delete it, but you’re addressing a comment in this thread so I’m not sure where I’d move it to. Given that what you’re saying has nothing to do with what the person you’re replying to said my first impulse is to delete it.

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