Virgin Mary image appears on a fence post. Religious-types freak out.

Seems the folks down in Australia are getting a little of the old holy-image-appears-on-random-object-Christians-start-acting-like-total-whack-jobs fun of their own as of late. So says The Sydney Morning Herald:

Hundreds of believers flocked to the Coogee Beach headland yesterday to witness what they say is an apparition of the Virgin Mary.

Scores more hiked up the cliff path to touch, kiss and pray to the post which over the past few days has been transformed into something of a shrine, with pictures of the virgin, rosary beads and flowers piled around the white-washed fence.

Some wept, others sang, most prayed. As the sunlight reflected off a crook in the fence throughout the afternoon, hundreds claimed they could discern the shape of a veiled figure, and most agreed it was “Our Lady”.

They kissed a fence post?! Do they not realize that dogs tend to urinate on fence posts? I suppose that’s a little better than rubbing their naked asses against it.

This is one of those things about Christians that I just don’t understand. First off, why would Jesus and his Mother spend so much time drawing pictures of themselves into various random objects such as trees, fence posts, office building windows, or whatever other random inanimate object happens to be around at the time when they could do a much better job of letting people know they really exist by, say, materializing in the middle of the Today show set and performing an undeniable miracle such as making Al Roker actually interesting, or at least entertaining, to watch? Huh? Is that too much of a miracle for the King of Kings to pull off? I realize I’m asking a lot here.

No, instead we get nothing but pathetic doodles that have less artistic merit than something produced by a blind epileptic quadriplegic. Artistically speaking, Jesus should stick to turning water into wine and leave the art stuff to the professionals.

Secondly (yeah, I did have more questions), why the hell when one of these shoddy self-portraits appear do all the Christians in the immediate vicinity feel they have to:

A) rush immediately to the site in question
B) touch, rub, kiss, fondle, molest, pray, cry, or faint
C) generally make a nuisance of themselves?

They do that by clogging streets, leaving various “gifts” (someone eventually has to pick that shit up), trampling people’s lawns and just generally not doing anything productive or important despite all the problems they cause by being there. What the fuck is wrong with these people?

When was the last time you heard of a bunch of Jews freaking out because a vague image of some holy figure of their’s showed up on someone’s kreplach? How the last time you heard about a load of Muslims spazzing because one of them saw the face of Mahomet appear in the pattern of the wood grain of some random door someplace? You never hear about that sort of thing.

Occasionally the Hindus will make a big deal out of a statue of one of their various Gods they have supposedly drinking milk, but that’s about the only other religious group I can think of that has anything close to what the Christians are constantly reporting and it’s about a dumb as the idea of Jesus drawing bad pictures of himself everywhere.

Whatever. There are days when I’m feeling particularly evil that I just know there’s a great set of pranks to be pulled using this affinity of Christians to practically wet themselves over this sort of thing. One of these days I may have to see if I can pull it off.

221 thoughts on “Virgin Mary image appears on a fence post. Religious-types freak out.

  1. This maybe a little off the subject, but has anyone else seen that car window sticker of the little boy kneeling down in front of a cross?
    I’m thinking he looks suspiciously like the little boy who pisses on everything! Does this say something of christianity?

  2. all of you are so pathetic.  i dont know why you complain.  do something to make the world a better place.  and if you are doing something, do more because its not enough.  no wonder all of you hate God, its because he brought you here.  but you dont want to go back either.  so youre stuck and all you do is bitch about indecision.  thats the life of american trash.

  3. What’s pathetic is A) the laughable name you’re posting under and B) your attempts at punctuation and spelling.

    Yeah, I’m going to take criticism from someone calling themselves “Tha gangsta” seriously. rolleyes

  4. No kidding…is ‘Tha’ short for ‘that’, which of course makes me wonder if he is referencing the 1966 series ‘That Girl’ ( with Marlo Thomas (picture Gangsta running through the streets holding a large floppy hat to his head so it does not blow away and kicking up his heels in a flowing dress, throwing his baby-9 into the air…).

    If that isn’t it then just how lazy do you have to be NOT to stretch your finger an inch to hit the right letter? He used the same number of letters so there was not abbreviation going on to save precious typing seconds so why not ‘Thu’ or ‘Thi’, roughly the same sounds, same number of letters, and more importantly still misspelled (hence it is still gangsta-cool). Hell, why not go mediaeval on our asses and type ‘Thee’, he could set some mean pipe hitting Moors on us who could then to go to work with torches and pliers.

    Okay, now what was this about when I started?

  5. What’s pathetic is A) the laughable name you’re posting under

    what kinna fucked up name is “les”?  i dont get it.  is it jewish or something?  damn, id hate to have a name like yours.  its a stupid name.  my question for you is—why dont you make a name like mine?  obviously, my parents didnt name me tha gangsta, did they? well, since youll probably make a pathetic joke out of it, ill tell you that they didnt.  ok. we’re past that now.  what the hell were your parents smoking/snorting/injecting when they named you?

    and B) your attempts at punctuation and spelling.

    hey, this is your fault i dont got no edumacation.  im stupid like this, and i can still argue with you.  you just dont want to cause your scared.

    Yeah, I’m going to take criticism from someone calling themselves “Tha gangsta” seriously.

    yes you are bitch

  6. I’m sorry, but tha Gangsta made me laugh out loud. I know I probably shouldn’t have, Les, but you gotta admit he has a sort of twisted charm. Or is it only because I’m smoking/snorting/injecting something? (not really) And Les isn’t a stupid name at all. I have a brother-in -law named Les.

  7. Hahahahahahahahah! I just realized who “Tha Gangsta” is! I didn’t look closely at his email address the first time out, but now I have and I should’ve realized. The poor grammar, the lack of punctuation, the over-inflated sense of self-importance. All the hallmarks of the return of: VENTRICLEMAN! 😀

    Oh man, I thought he had left us forever! His name may change, but his laughable attempts at intelligent discussion live on!

  8. this is to all the people on this site that are out of touch with all the dim wits on this planet. tha gangsta is just a lazy way to say the gangster, which makes so much more sense to write “tha” instead of “the”. it makes rhyming for retards easier.
      Les, this is a great site. It is in my professional(hehehe i think that i am a professional) opinion that you should be a mechanic, doctor or professor. Your train of logic is excellent. Every one that read this site (even tha ventrical gangsta man) knows that he can’t argue. He just got all pissed ‘cause you made him look like and idiot. I’m guessing that his original intent was to make you look like a fool.
      this part goes to the tha gangsta ventricle ball sack licker. do you have any idea what the hell you are talking about?!?!?!? my cat could crap a better arguement that you could ever hope piece together. i took a debate class once. it sucked, probably because i slept through it. one thing i do remember is that you don’t make assumptions and don’t do name calling. i have a family friend named les. he owns a 1969 Dodge Charger R/T and a 1970 Chevrolet Chevelle LS6. those are muscle cars(i wouldn’t expect you to know what those are), three awsome dauters, a hot wife, makes more money that you could ever dream of and he would stomp a mud hole in your ass then walk it dry, you whiny little bitch. look i can use name calling since i don’t have a medal in argueing, dumbass. making fun of somebodys name instead of punching holes in someones arguement is an indication of a feeble mind. feel free to call me a doo doo head after you read this.
      Back to Les and other smart people. the only real problem that i had with your arguement with tha chowdahed was, that you didn’t bring up the biblical fact(not to be confused with scientific fact) all that shit started out in and around the arab nations. which (i think) would make his apperance different than what is accepted, same with mary and “tha apossles”. you can feel free to rip on me, i think it is hilarous. if you see any thing wrong with this, then correct me. IT IS GREAT TO LEARN FROM OTHERS.
      before i forget, this is to tha dumshit. i am an athiest. i stop to help people stuck in snow because my vehicle can pull them out. i stop to help people with broken down cars on the side of the road because i have an A.A.S. in Automotive Servive. I don’t do drugs or have sex. I jump from airplanes(i would strongly reccomend to everybody), break my jeep fourwheeling for fun, hang out with friends, drink beer, work ten+ hours a day and go to school. but because i don’t believe in a god i am going to a place that doesn’t exist. fuck you, you simple minded piece of shit. just wait until YOU get into the real world, you wont care about the same things you so violently defend now. i know a guy that is a bishop in a church and he beats his wife and kids, so is he going to heaven?(that is directed towards tha dinglberi only, no one else)
    P.S. Les your site kicks ass. by the way so does your beard. Do you ride a Harley-Davidson? if not you really should.

  9. My, my! I’m a freshman in college and I have to say, I am appalled at the lack of proper grammar and spelling displayed by Ventricle Man, or whatever his name is. I think all those Jesus freaks should be teaching their children their ABC’s instead of religious indoctrinations…maybe then we’d have some coherent posts on SED wink

    And Les keep up the awesome work!

  10. And I should take my own advice for putting a D when I most obviously ment a B

    Please excuse this most egregious error of mine, I sincerly apoligize!


  11. K….with the apparitian of the Virgin Mary…’s called a MIRACLE….people are so self-consumed with proving everything wrong (and yet some things right)…that they have lost thought over the simplicty of things. They are trying to be like a Rube Goldberg of Christianity….why is it so hard to believe that a miracle actually occured….Yes, Miracles actually occur, it’s to give people who need to “See to believe” something to look at….and what do they do…they complicate things…please…the proof is there….why do people resist acceptance to the truth that, YES there is a God…and He sent His son Jesus to the earth to die for all our sins that we may be given a second chance….He loves you all unconditionally….and so do I
    …Les…this is a very interesting site and I have just finished reading the debate on Kent Hovind….VERY INTERESTING…
    ….as for reading the Bible four times (srry…I am a tangent wink) anyone can read the Bible….but to read slowly, from ambition, meditate, and think is how to learn….and maybe you did…I will not assume nothing…
    ….If you want to talk about the Bible with me I would love to…I’ve posted my real e-mail…so please feel free…..I love learning, listening, and debating…hehehe
    …I know you have heard this before…but yet again…I wILL PRAY FOR U….
    …. Also I would LOVE IT if you became a Christian…there is hope…(For example: How such a man like Saul, who killed Christians {New Testament} – became Paul…one of the greatest missionaries ever known!!!)…you can change to…but if you want…please, if you hear me out, because if you agree with what I’m saying then that would be awesome so you could tell your wife and daughter….but it’s your choice….We as humans are given the choice

  12. DON’T DO IT LES…..stop and think, please. Can’t you see she’s a loon. Don’t do……ahhhhh!! (Aside) What a waste of a perfectly good mind. I think it was the offer to pray for him that softened him up and made him ripe for plucking.

  13. Hey,
    First of all I’m not a loon…If I were, would I be talking on this webpage…If I were then could it not be thought that this is a page where loons commute? Then would we not all be considered loons?….oops…complicating simplicity….sorry 😀

    K…to Brock…I am not trying to “waste of a perfectly good mind” ….did I not say it was HIS choice? Just because I want to talk it doesn’t mean that he will suddenly loose his intellect and become dunce.
    Why do you sound so insistingly frightened? You make it sound as if I am trying to murder the man….wow I never knew that LISTENING to a person (like me) could allow that to happen…. wink
    If Les wants, he can “Hear me out”, Brock please do not assume I am trying to exorcise his mind…I just want to talk, and if Les accepts, he can listen. There is no threat, extortion, bribary, or anything made…I an not trying to force anything upon anyone.
    We have free choice…and communication is a two-way path….
    Oh, and Les from what I have read so far from your comments, you are a genius, your intellect is amazing, so keep on feeding it…..I really hope your job pays you enough smile

    Alright, Brandi, first of all I did not assume anything, so please do not think that. I did not say that because someone is not of a particular religion/sect (in this case Christianity) that they are suddenly immoral, vile, despicable, horrid, and black-hearted.

    Oh and Les, I did not say you killed anyone smile , doubt you have….but then again all I know is that your name starts with ‘Les’ wink…anyways…you can reach me at my e-mail if you like…but it’s your choice, along with anyone else…….

    K, I’ll come back…hopefully….in a bit. Have a nice day everyone.



  14. Hey…
    Forgot to mention…Les, hope your mother feels better and that everything goes well. You are not useless! Trust me, just her seeing you are there for her, smiling with her, and being there to make her sure she has company to cheer her up is like an indescribable “cure”…I’m sure your mother will feel the pressure and pain lifted…you will both be shifting through stillness, no knowledge or care of time or reality…just love consuming the both of you….at least that is what I’d feel if my son were there in my time of need, just being there….
    if you didn’t look here this is a good site :

    Prayers with you and your family,



  15. I’m going to go out on a limb here and say I think it’s in incredibly poor taste to attempt use the illness of his mother as this patheticly transparent excuse to evangelize about your belief in religion or quack medicine.

    …considering that you certainly know exactly how Les feels about both.

    I would be insulted beyond belief.

  16. That’s why I made the joke about Les not succumbing to her (Chris) in the first place. While it was meant as a preposterous assumption about Les’ inability to resist, deep down I wanted to point out how insidious and insulting her whole tone was (suggesting that Les’ hadn’t read the Bible slowly enough or processed the information adequately.) That perhaps what he really needed was to speak to someone wiser who has the ear of God. Chris, you folks come on here and say it in different ways, but what you are really saying (I think) is that we need your help and moral direction. I’m not stupid and I think you’ll find that others beside Les have intellects to see how insulting you can be toward non-believers, all while smiling sweetly and saying “I’ll pray for you” Give me a break! I’d love to hear some of the prayers you guys pray for people who doubt your words. If I sound angry and out of patience it’s because you guys are too much. Don’t you see that?

  17. It did seem a bit vulture-like, didn’t it? But only with the best of intentions, so it’s OK, right? Pft.

    I don’t have children, nor do I want children. I have no physical impediment, I just don’t want them and my husband and I are not going to have them. And I have reached an age where, by all accounts, my biological clock should be heard ticking three zip codes away. It’s silent, as it most likely will stay.

    She sounds like the SAME kind of people that would get their jollies (knowing damn well how I feel) if they caught a rumor that I was nauseous one fine morning or something. They smile big shit-eating grins and say “Oh, well you never know!….how wonderful it would be for you if…” [“if” meaning “if I found myself trapped in a situation I wasn’t happy about”, but that the person had preached much to me about, pregnant]

    Vultures. And christian-like my ASS.

  18. WWooooWWWW…..harsh words you guys, harsh….

    K…Brandi…I was just saying kind, apologetic words of sentiment. It was not meant to be a sort of bribery. ANYONE in any relgion or non-religion would say the same thing. It’s a natural thing to do (at least for me). When someone is in trouble as a friend you would acknowledge, apologize, and offer help. If you had a problem, I would offer to help…and I don’t even know you. It has nothing to do with me being of a certain religion, it’s just an ethic that had been around me as a child. Like one of those say “thank-you” when someone offers you something.
    And yes, I probably cannot fathom what Les is going through right now…but how would you know? Do you think that I’ve grown up all sheltered and trouble free? Do you know what I’ve felt? The issues I’ve dealt with? The emotions that have overcome me? The thinks I think? Actions I do? NO….so don’t think that my life is sweet and dandy, and free from blemish…because it’s not, no one’s is!

    K…Brock…Well one thing, with this web page, it is written and not orally communicated, so you would not know my facial or verbal expressions…let alone my tone of voice. So stop assuming things. Assuming the manner I take…what I mean…what my intentions are (If I have any)….
    ….Brock I doubt that you are stupid, so do not imply that I think you are…you might have had a Phd., went to Harvard, ran for President, watever. I wouldn’t know…and I am not trying to breach your intellect or self-confidence…
    ….Is there something wrong for wanting to pray for someone? I consider it amazing if someone would want to pray for me, it makes you feel warm on a cold day. It’s like walking through a hall of numerous, depressed, blurred faces, passing on the same feeling to you…until you find that one person with a gleaming smile on their face….it just brightens your day…trust me… 

    Brandi…If you don’t want children…that’s just fine….it’s your choice and I’m not going to force any change…it’s a big issue on that topic (however that topic came along)…but I don’t feel that you should have children if you don’t want, I mean it brings along responsiblity and dedication.
    Personally for me, I would rather that a couple had a child after they’ve thought for awhile. Because when people have children they should have them for the thoughts of joy & love, bringing a new life into the world…and knowing that they will have the patience to cope with it.
    I would rather a child be born for the sake of love, and not born to fulfil the ‘needed’ standards…if there is no dedication, then no…don’t have children….but if there is…then you need to think and talk and discuss with your husband……however we got onto that topic…. smile……………..

    Anyways….enjoy your days….it’s getting colder….

    …..until another time….



  19. ..and I brought up the topic of children as an analogy. Although possibly not quite apples-to-apples, it seemed demonstrative of the concept. The actual topic has no bearing here.

  20. Chris, I responded to what you said only, and if you want to understand better my take on all the “sweetness and light” Christianity engenders read my post today under “Kent Hovind shows us why Creationists…”. I can’t make myself clearer than that.

    Getting off subject..the reason I didn’t offer Les kind words regarding his Mom, even though I do wish her a complete and painless recovery, was because I have this fear of being perceived as insincere. It’s a personal hang-up. So I tend to save the personal support for those who will believe I truly mean it. That’s another reason why I automatically suspect your best intentions. I’ve met many who push concerned conversation just so they can instruct others and gain points with their God and feel better about themselves by evangelizing. I assume atheists provide more points than simple backsliders.

    Do I believe you are sincere? – No. But I believe you think you are.

  21. Hey,

    K…Brock…I never said that ‘everyone’ offers words of sentiment…I just said that because of the atmosphere I was in as a child, things people said, did, and what not….that is what I started to do….to the point that it became a natural habit/instinct.
    And I DO mean it sincerely…I really wish Les’s mom the best of luck…if you really knew me….you would know….like I said before…this WebPage is typed and not orally spoken….therefore my tone of voice or facial expression cannot be implied….please…don’t think of me as some cheap little punk who wants her way and does so by brown-nosing…no…it’s not me….
    …My motto is that actions speak louder than words…I’d rather show than talk…and I would love to….

    But, Brock, Brandi, Les….if you have any questions about me or want to know anything..just ask….I’m not trying to make any enemies…and please do not imply any of these text messages to be spoken in a harsh, vulgar tone…

    Alright…thanks…and if you want to start up a topic or discussion or anything….I’m all ears smile

    Have a great week,



  22. Hey Chris,
    Ya alot of people here can’t seem to fathom anyone being kind or caring without there being some secret reason behind it. They seem to really love hating. It’s sort of a depressing and insecure mentality if you ask me, but they seem to like it well enough, so what can you do.
    Nice to see another Christian around here though!
    Maybe you can join me in battle hahaha
    just kidding guys.

  23. The more I read DB’s posts the more I’m beginning to think he’s just a troll seeing how long he can drag things out. Some of his comments are ridiculous even for a Creationist and he has a habit of not responding to points raised against his arguments. I’m beginning to wonder if there’s any point engaging him in conversation at all.

    As for Chris, there’s probably not much you could relate to me that I haven’t heard before. The points you raised in your first response are the same points I’ve beaten to death in other threads with other believers. I was once a Christian and I abandoned that belief system a long time ago when I made the mistake of looking into it too deeply. You’ve said nothing so far to convince me that standpoint is incorrect. I appreciate you stopping by to participate, but as for questions I might have to ask, well, I don’t have any.

    Why you believe is unimportant to me. I’ve heard thousands of different reasons people have to believe. Each one as valid as the next in most cases. I’ve heard countless tales of people who have personally experience God in their lives be that the Christian God, the Jewish God, the Islamic God or what have you and I have no reason to doubt the sincerity of the people involved. I believe that they believe they experienced something, but that doesn’t mean I believe it actually happened anywhere outside of their minds. Just as I’ve met several dozen UFO Abductees and Big Foot Close Encounter types who also seem very sincere and seem to believe that what they claimed happened actually happened. Most of them even tend to have more proof than the average God believer, but I don’t think those things have actually happened either. Sincerity is nice, but it’s not evidence.

  24. Ok Les, what is it that you want to know that I avoid answering?

    Because you “dreamed” you were a christian at one point, never made you one. Just because you thought you were one and then realized “THE TRUTH”
    doesn’t make you the all powerfull “experiencer of all things” thus giving you the deciding power of whether it’s true or not.
    I would argue that you never did experience it, even when you thought you were.
    All I’m saying is don’t bash christians just because you think you know how “fake” it is from your own experience, if you did experience it, you wouldn’t be an atheist today.

  25. Well, now there’s a point that is impossible to argue with!


    He argues he never experienced it, and neither did/does anyone else. But that they are sincere in believing they did. I gather from his posts that he did everything prescribed necessary to experience full christian/religious submersion, including “truly wanting it with all his heart”. Are you saying God likes you better than Les? Or me? Maybe your God saw some glimmer of reason in our minds and decided we weren’t good candidates for assimilation.

    I don’t suppose you want to tell us YOUR turning-point religious “experience”?

    However, if it involves drugs and some stupor on the bathroom floor, I don’t want to hear it. That one is played out.

  26. And thus we come to the height of arrogance in your responses to date. Perhaps you are incapable of imagining how someone could go from a true believer to an atheist, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t possible or that it hasn’t happened. It’s a common and easy cop-out to claim that if I had been a “true” Christian I never would have become an atheist. If you have a real interest in others who have made that transition then I suggest picking up a copy of Losing Faith in Faith: From Preacher to Atheist by Dan Barker, formerly an Evangelist for 19 years who ended up an atheist.

    I’ve never claimed to be an all-powerful anything nor that I have a lock on the one and only possible truth. I leave those claims to the like of yourself as you sit there in judgment of how “true” of a Christian I must have been in the past. Neither do I claim to have experienced all-things or that it gives me the “deciding power” which all others must abide by. I have declared that based on my experiences, studies and the available evidence I have seen to date that I have no good reason to believe in the existence of Gods or other Superior Supernatural Entities. Do I think I’m correct in my viewpoint? Of course I do. Am I perfect and incapable of being wrong? Absolutely not. It’s entirely possible that I could be wrong about the existence of Gods and I’ve admitted as much on more than one occasion, which is more than you’ve done to date. In your fevered reality the idea that there couldn’t be Gods is beyond consideration. You’ve made it clear that you cannot imagine how life could have any purpose or meaning without some outside entity giving it validation and direction. I have no problems considering the possibility that there could be Gods whereas it’s clear you can’t fathom how their non-existence is even possible let alone how probable it may be.

    You are hypocritically condemning me for sins you are committing yourself as it’s clear from many of your responses that you feel you are the final arbiter on who is and isn’t a “true” Christian and on whether or not there is a God. You have consistently “bashed” non-believers, or anyone who disagrees with you for that matter, regardless of the merits of their arguments with snarky replies and simplistic counter-arguments. Anything you haven’t wanted to address you’ve ignored yet you never let an opportunity for an insulting quip to slip by. Pot. Kettle. You know the rest.

  27. Because the relationship ended I was never actually in love.

    I suspect he would argue just that! How old is he? He’s likely romaticized alot of things and drawn firm absolutes.

    It’s easier that way. Don’t want to get all “thinky”.

  28. Hey everyone!!! How are you all?

    Wow…I am behind in this conversation aren’t I…sorry….

    Thanks for the kind words DB! It’s great that you’re a Christian 😀 …keep on going!

    Hey Les!…Question…How much have you studied into the Devil and his temptations….because I’m learning…and….well some interesting things….
            Places the Devil would/will be:
      – Tempting them, (placing wrong thoughts in their minds)
      – Tempting all kinds of people
      – Trying to tempt people (i.e. Christians) while they are in Church…YES in church…that is one of the most impotent places for a Christian to be tempted…he tries to alter the person by thoughts, so that they can think of things other than church and what’s going on there….
          Places the Devil won’t be
      – In clubs, raves, and such
      – Cult practices
      – And more
    ………….Why won’t he be there? Because the temptation/sin has already been started off, and is happening fittingly to him, so his purpose has already been done in clubs and raves and what not….Humans are already acting as idiots…so he doesn’t need to be there….he goes where he thinks it is needed, where he wants destruction to happen….
    ………….You know what I’ve noticed? The time when the devil strikes hardest is probably the turning point of a non-believer into a believer. (i.e. Pilgrim’s Progress by John Bunyan is a good read)
    ……(sorry, tangent is I)….What I mean is that you may not have noticed, but at the time when you started caring to further your faith and decided to look more into the Bible…you were vulnerable…your mind was open…and the devil saw this, and he became ready to be rip it apart….
    ……It may have been more than that opinion that I have stated….I mean…You were not a ‘fake’ Christian, because, you had an interest to further your faith (which is awesome)…you just might have not anticipated the strength of your opponent…and because of that….possibly…is why you are now where you are…..
    ………But this is just one of many opinions (or my opinion wink)…Because I do not know you, nor do I know how you think…I can only hypothesize…I’m just saying from past experiences, lessons, and such…this is what I’ve learned…..
    …….And thanks for allowing me to participate…these webpages really allow you to get out your thoughts….and it helps….I should start one up to……eventually smile
    (P.S. tell me what you thought about the above opinion)

    Hey Brandi! How are you? ….umm…concerning one of you points made to DB on October 9, 2003 12:00 PM ….I would like to say that we are all equal in God’s eyes…no one is favoured….He loves each and every one of us, unconditionally….(I know your going to have something to say so….feel free wink

    Hey Les…that book….I will try to find it …and read….reading is good…
    Question….so you don’t think that there is a top being?…So do you think we came by chance? …I know atheists believes that there is no God….ummm….could you explain why they/you/any other atheist thinks that? I never really found out…thanks..
    …umm…so about there not being a top being… How about in a…. store…let’s say a Shopper’s Drug Mart, for example…there are the customers, trainees, employees, employers, assitant manager, head manager, vice-president, and president….isn’t there always a top? A point of no continual? Could we not place that example into there being an altimate? A God? Just a thought…. 

    Well…..I’ve got to go now…..Thanks for hearing me out you guys…and I look forward to reply (hopefully sooner wink )

    Have a great week!!!!




  29. So, Chris you were “strong” enough to overcome the Devil and his trickery, but Les was not. I was not. Or maybe you were just one of the lucky ones who was able to have their religious turning point scheduled at a time that the Devil was at another engagement.

    Maybe he should publish his schedule in Outlook so we might better plan our religious conversions.

    And the universe doesn’t run operate like a CVS Drug Store, thanks. If there is a First Cause, there’s no one with any authority in this world between myself and it.

  30. les, I know I have alot of responding to do but this jumped out at me.
    “What are the chances life could happen by accident? Well, they

  31. I don’t know if anyone will be interested but somehow I found this link which takes you to a page with two quizzes. One is called What Do You Really Know About The Bible? and the other is What Do You Know About The Separation of State and Church?. I took the latter and scored 18/21 for a rank of Consitutional scholar, I plan on taking the bible one later but it has 50 questions and I am not up for that at 1:39 in the am.

  32. DB I’m going to explain to you, once again, that I have never claimed that the universe started out from nothing. That is a claim you like to make repeatedly, but it is not what I have said.

    I’ve explained this before elsewhere on this site, but I will repeat again for your benefit. We know that energy cannot be destroyed, it can only change form. Matter can be converted to energy and energy can be converted back into matter. Given this it’s logical to argue that the universe has always existed in one form or another. The Big Bang does not say the universe came from nothing. Trace it backward in time and it collapses into a singularity, an infinitely compressed point of energy. Energy is about as close to eternal as anything gets, but doesn’t require a God.

    Now, if you’re finished cheer leading perhaps you could address some of the points raised recently.

  33. Well less you’ve managed to completly evade addressing the comment you made earlier.

    “What are the chances life could happen by accident? Well, they

  34. DB, do you mean the chances of complex life as we know it being here by a series of “accidents”? Althought I think that word is loaded. It’s called “natural selection”

    OR do you mean the chances of life occuring spontaneously from non-life?

  35. Alright, I’m going to jump on that grenade.

    Les, can you explain the coin thing? I feel like I’m missing something obvious and ought to be ashamed. But I must know.

    Were the chances 100% BEFORE you flipped the coin? I assume it was 50/50 at that point. Does actually flipping it and seeing the outcome CHANGE the initial probability?

    Or is this symantics? A hole in the original question? “what I think the chances ARE that it WOULD HAVE ended heads up…” (because it DID, it’s 100%)

    Help me out. I don’t get it.

  36. You got it. The last statement.

    The fact that it has happened doesn’t change the initial odds, but then the initial odds probably aren’t as astronomical as we’re often led to believe anyway when you consider the size of the Universe.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.