“The purpose of separation of church and state…”

“The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe with blood for centuries.”James Madison

I’ve mentioned before that I’m very much in favor of the continued seperation of church and state for obvious reasons. Every so often I’m called to task for taking offense at things such as the phrase “In God We Trust” on our money or the posting of the Ten Commandments in court houses or the dozens of other little annoying ways the Christian Right have managed to wiggle their message into the day to day operations of the Federal Government. I am often asked “What harm does it do?” My explanation is never quite as well worded as the one that Keith Taylor recently had published by the L.A. Times.

28 thoughts on ““The purpose of separation of church and state…”

  1. your going to hell you satinist but you asked for i dont condemb people, people condem people

  2. I’m not a Satanist (proper spelling BTW). In order to be a Satanist you have to believe in Satan, which I don’t. Satan is an invention of the Christian religion just as Jesus and Moses and the rest of those fairy tales are. If I don’t believe in God and I don’t believe in Jesus or any of that stuff, then it should go without saying that I don’t believe in Satan.

    You need to A) learn the difference between a Satanist and a Christian and an Atheist and B) you need to learn how to spell, capitalize, and punctuate. I find it very hard to worry about your opinion when you don’t even try to come across as a reasonably literate individual.

    At the least you could be brave enough to leave your name, if nothing else. Good to see your faith gives you the confidence to stand up and be identified when you’re making incomprehensible statements. Thanks for sharing.

  3. Good one Les. I am the same as you. When I say Im atheist people believe I am a Satanist. These people are being ignorent, But oh well there is only so much you can do to inform them.
                  -Darkest Blessings-

  4. I do not have a comment that has not already been made by you or which does not lie within the confines of this page or any other page you can find on the net.  I just felt the need to let you know that I too agree with you.

  5. My guess is that he thinks you worship satin, which, while it may be odd to worship textiles, at least the priests would look terrific.

    One can only presume he thinks that those who follow the teachings of Islam are also really fond of muslin.

  6. I am sure this is nothing you have never heard before, but I believe it is worth repeating.

    The term “seperation of church and state” has somehow changed meanings over the years. When the founders of this country wrote the constitution they actually formed the new nation on Christian principles. The 1st Amendment in the Bill of Rights actually reads in part:


    ” Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.”


    Note the key here is “an establishment of religion” The US Government, by law is prohibited to establish a national religion. The Constitution does not prohibit religion. Actually, the Constitution does not even prohibit the recognition of religion.

    The U.S. Declaration of Independence itself contains religious language. In it you will read that the colonists were not seperating from the Crown for religious reasons, but because the King was abusing his authority over them.

    The Mayflower Compact declares a strong allegiance to the king. As a matter of fact the author wrote,


    “Having undertaken for the Glory of God, and Advancement of the Christian Faith, and the Honour of our King and Country, a voyage to plant the first colony in the northern parts of Virginia”


    Therefore, there is no historical foundation for the present day definition of “seperation of church and state.”

  7. You’re right Mark, those are all arguments we’ve heard before and which we’ve addressed time and again here. Still, let’s see what we’ve got.

    The term

  8. I really love Atheists.  They make you realize how stupid and ignorant people can really be.  Atheists claim to believe in nothing.  But corect me if I’m wrong but you cannot believe in nothing can you? I mean once you believe in nothing doesn’t that automatically make it something?  That just goes to show how stupid and ignorant some people are.  I always think about how white supremasists think they are so much better than other people.  But if you were to read certain documents written by slave owners they woule mention how they knew the slaves they owned were smarter than them and that’s why they needed them. But that’s neither here nor there with my first subject.  I close by saying this.  Simply because a person is too stupid and ignorant to believe in God, Jesus, Satan, hell, or heaven;that can never and will never deny the fact that they do exist.  I simply say this.  If you truly belive that they do not exist; for your sake I hope you are right.  But I know that the second you fall into hell and are burnt alive for eternity you’ll know the truth.

  9. Marcel,

    I spend as much time every day “believing” in the nonexistence of God as you spend believing in the nonexistence of Mr. Smee from Peter Pan.

    Got that?  I doubt it.

  10. You mean to say Mr. Smee is not real? Or that he is real, but you can’t imagine him being real for Marcel? Or perhaps you are Mr. Smee in disguise? Wait, I got it, you think Mr Smee is really God!

    Ahh, Geekmom, come now. You breath, you see spring coming, your daughter growing the stars in the practically infinite sky, and your mind never once wonders why or how? Hmmm.. how very dull.

  11. David, I always marvel at the glories of our world.  But I’m perfectly content with the scientific explanation for how they came into being, and have no need to create a being behind them.

    But it’s amazing how, when you don’t spend time thinking about God, he manages to vanish.  Just like Mr. Smee.  You probably didn’t even think about Mr. Smee until I mentioned him, right?  And I doubt you’ll be thinking about him tomorrow—and your life will be full and complete without him.  It really is just that simple.

  12. How’s that threat of hell as a deterrent working for ya, Marcel? Are you a saint yet? Or have you already gotten word from your god that your name’s on the list to get into his club?

    If I’m in an airplane at the time the world ends, can I avoid falling into hell?

    How come when I read certain other documents and old laws they seem to say that slaves are property and akin in worth to animals?

    I’m so glad you’re here. I’ve got so many questions for you!

  13. You mean that if I don’t think about a character from a children’s story, that it would be analogous to ignoring God? Somehow, just somehow, I think there may be a slight flaw in your logic.

    But I will give you that if you’ve turned away from God in no uncertain terms, he will leave you alone. Forever. I know of very few people (Les claims to be one) that have had a relationship with God, and prefer to no longer have one. To be honest, I doubt they had one to start. For most of those, I think there might have been some intellectual acceptance of the concept of God. But not an actual relationship. I remember well my life before salvation. There is a difference. A very pleasant difference.

  14. Marcel:
    Atheists don’t believe there is no god. We have no belief there is a god. There is a difference. The word means “without theism”.

    Believing in fairy tales does not make them true. I, too, once believed – I received the standard baptist indoctrination as a child and around 10 years of age, or so, went up to the Pastor to be baptized. Then, as I grew up and read the Bible I realized what a load of bullshit it is. Wake up and use your mind!

  15. Uh, who’s this Mr. Smee guy?  I mean, I wasn’t that interested until you said “cutlass.”  Then I thought of pirates, knee high boots, shirts with puffy sleeves and lacy cuffs, and,

    erm .  .  . the wife told me to ask, really.  (Something to do with Orlando Bloom.)

    Anyway, who’s this Smee dude?

  16. I really love people like Marcel. They make you realize how stupid and ignorant people can really be. First they set up a straw man (atheists claim to believe in nothing) and then they go about knocking it down with a bit of spurious logic. That just goes to show how stupid and ignorant some people are.

    Wow, amazing how effective their own words are against them.

  17. But, there was never a time that I sought out the meaning of peter pan prior to hearing of peter pan. Certainly I never noticed it’s absence from my life prior to reading it, let alone Mr. Smee. And afterward I put it away and never thought on it again (well, not never, but quite seldom, and it was never smee that crossed my mind).

    God, on the other hand is a different story. I recognized a lack of Him before I met him. I sought Him before I found Him. And after I read the Bible, I could not simply walk away.

    I can understand that if your view is that the Bible is a fairytale, then you could treat it as I have Peter Pan. However, I’m not suggesting a particular creed, just the existence of God. And I see that pursuit, the pursuit of the nature of reality, a pressing issue in the existence of a self-aware being.

    And I still await your response to your explanation of that nature. What makes good or evil?

  18. nowiser, given the choice between Johnny “Captain Jack Sparrow” Depp and Mr. Smee, I would definitely worship Johnny any day of the week.  Yeowza!  Who knew that the Disney ride could grow up so well?

  19. David:
      I would bet that if you were not incessantly exposed to this word “god” all your life you would not have “met” him or “found” him. Of course, you may have created him yourself if you didn’t understand the world around you and could not deal with that lack of knowledge. You have simply succumbed to the oldest scam on the planet.

    PS. If you are truly a seeker of the nature of reality then surrender to the temptation of the supernatural explanation would be your last choice!

  20. spocko, I assure you that you’re busy labeling me. Sorry, I don’t pigeon hole so easily. I probably read more philosophy at 14, than you did in college. I seek truth, and all truth is God’s truth. It’s my experience that people that cannot trust anything but what they can put their hands on believe as you believe. Those who can open their minds to the infinite, embrace it. It’s not an intellegence thing, or a talent thing, I’m not saying those that cannot know God are lacking. Indeed, I believe everyone can know God. But I wouldn’t go around bragging that I was limited to believing in the natural, if I were you.

    And I’m down with Geekmom on the comparitive characters. Capt. Jack is way more sleek as a pirate than ol’ Mr. Smee.

  21. I probably read more philosophy at 14, than you did in college.

    No, he’s not arrogant. He’s not boastful. He’s not any of those things we keep accusing him of unfairly! What was it they said about ASSumptions?

    But I wouldn

  22. Les –

    Enjoyed your comments on the “Seperation of Church and State”. It seems that Christian Fundamentalists haven’t actually read anything our founding fathers wrote on the subject before they open their mouths about it.
      Isn’t it enlightening that when confronted with intelligently-defended opposing views they resort to their old mantra “You’re gonna Burn in Hell !”
    For people who are supposed to “turn the other cheek” when struck – they instead slap back.
    So much for “Christan Tolerance” !

  23. I don’t know that I’d equate turning the other cheek with Christian tolerance, but otherwise, yeah, it never fails to amuse me when they fall back on the classics once they are bereft of points to make.

    I honestly don’t hold most Christians to the ideal of turning the other cheek they supposedly embrace as I think that’s a pretty unrealistic thing to expect anyone to live up to.

  24. I am a Secular Humanist who happened to find this neat site by searching Google, originally to find the author of the phrase having to do with the “danger of settled opinion”.

    Currently I’m fighting the “not-so-fun duh mental lists” and their efforts at legislation to allow exception to the non-descrimination clause in hiring.  I pretty much hate “faked based” initiations because although it might not be spelled out in the constitution, I believe mostly in Freedom FROM religion.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.